tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post5066810299041327556..comments2019-08-30T06:08:13.223-07:00Comments on Sean McGrath: XML in legislature/parliament environments : The centrality of line/page number citation in amendment cyclesSean McGrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17729925642255386855noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-44658007229726921212010-07-02T05:56:23.691-07:002010-07-02T05:56:23.691-07:00Dr. Data Dictionary,
I agree that classically for...Dr. Data Dictionary,<br /><br />I agree that classically formulated "structured", "semantic" XML is indeed perfect for search/retrieval functions but the mistake that many make is to conclude from that, that it should be the "master copy" for author/edit and for persistence.<br /><br />Those who make that mistake, in my opinion, get themselves into trouble because of the mismatch between the ideal structures for search/retrieval and the ideal structures for author/edit. The other (related) problem they can end up in is trying to provide a "one size fits all data model". I.e a model that is used for all author/edit, all audit trail, all search/retrieval, all research...<br /><br />The way KLISS works is that it purposely eschews any particular search/retrieval specialism in the normative data model. Then, using the RESTian interface to the KLISS "time machine", arbitrary "views" over the data are constructed to meet specific search/retrieval needs.<br /><br />For example, an XML data model for legislative intent research can be crafted. Then, using the event notification features of KLISS, it can create an idempotent, read/only view over the true repository and allow users to interact with *that*, rather than the normative data.<br /><br />In KLISS, you can have as many of these "views" as you like. They all work the same way from an architecture perspective. Some might be XML/XQuery, some might be RDF triple stores, some might be NLP-oriented etc.<br /><br />(Some of the posts after this one in the KLISS series, expand more on the time machine, the "views" etc. and may be of interest.)<br /><br />regards,<br />SeanSean McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729925642255386855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-78347970018916086732010-07-02T04:53:13.970-07:002010-07-02T04:53:13.970-07:00Nice post. Very good information on how XML is us...Nice post. Very good information on how XML is used to draft legislation and the workflow around bill authoring. We just released a large library of open source tools for doing "structured" search and retrieval on legislative documents based around the eXist native XML system as part of the Library of Congress NDIIPP project. You can see the reports here: http://www.mnhs.org/preserve/records/legislativerecords/pilot.htm#final<br /><br />Our analysis of four alternative architectures shows that using native XML is the best way to perform these functions.Dan McCrearyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12453673235365396446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-36880647679450830802010-06-16T12:18:03.684-07:002010-06-16T12:18:03.684-07:00Aigars,
Yes indeed. Some legislatures/parliaments...Aigars,<br /><br />Yes indeed. Some legislatures/parliaments do not use line/page numbers and instead use a "medium neutral" citation format. This is a very good thing but I'm afraid it will take quite some time for line/page-centric legislatures/parliaments to move to medium neutral citation approaches.<br /><br />As for the numbers not changing when numbered paragraphs are deleted. This is an excellent example of where modern conveniences such as auto-numbering can actively get in the way of good legal drafting. Numbers, one allocated, cannot "move" even if that means leaving gaps in the numbers. The numbers are not merely rendering artifacts to be changed by software on a whim. The numbers are truly part of the content and need to be treated as such.<br /><br />The content and the presentation cannot be prised apart in law. Medium neutral formats remove the problem of page/line fidelity but numbering of micro-document fragments remains a problem, unless all "ornamentation" of paragraphs is considered first class content and not merely computed filligree:-)<br /><br />regards,<br />Sean<br /><br />regards,<br />SeanSean McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729925642255386855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-14772520659538066902010-06-16T12:06:24.706-07:002010-06-16T12:06:24.706-07:00There are some legislatures where pages/lines are ...There are some legislatures where pages/lines are not used, but instead the paragraphs and their parts are numbered and all changes reference those. Also the numbers mostly don't change - if a paragraph is deleted, it stays as an empty numbered paragraph (with a note saying - erased in year X by bill Y) and new paragraphs are inserted either as new parts or using 139' notation (read as 139 prim).Aigars Mahinovshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00398816536449436304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-20680366761492221542010-06-08T09:22:21.391-07:002010-06-08T09:22:21.391-07:00Thanks Sean! (Indeed I see how problematic it can ...Thanks Sean! (Indeed I see how problematic it can be for you).bboissinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01260529009122462249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-85880341010266590672010-06-08T09:13:41.213-07:002010-06-08T09:13:41.213-07:00bboissin,
Re H+J. See See http://desktoppub.about...bboissin,<br /><br />Re H+J. See See http://desktoppub.about.com/od/glossary/g/HyphenJustify.htm.<br /><br />SeanSean McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729925642255386855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-23223231335445502662010-06-08T07:23:07.341-07:002010-06-08T07:23:07.341-07:00Last question: any reference to H+J algorithm, goo...Last question: any reference to H+J algorithm, google doesn't find anything.bboissinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01260529009122462249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-90638763850520672902010-06-08T07:20:47.770-07:002010-06-08T07:20:47.770-07:00Wow, I didn't know other countries had those i...Wow, I didn't know other countries had those issue. In the french legislation drafting system, there are no dependances on the form used to represent the law.<br /><br />Everything (amendements and law) link to each other using numbers (alinea, sentence, section, etc.). I don't know what the reason is, maybe the fact that everything is codified so the page number has no meaning (the consolidated version is not tied to any format and only "virtual").<br /><br />Very interesting serie of posts though!bboissinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01260529009122462249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-56247588614876838762010-06-01T10:29:41.864-07:002010-06-01T10:29:41.864-07:00It seems to me that some sort of mapping between p...It seems to me that some sort of mapping between page/line numbers of a particular rendering of the document and some sort of logical marker in the document would have the ability to provide a 'bridge' of sorts between the two 'interfaces' of the document. Particularly, if the logical marker would be of the form Article, Section, Subsection, Paragraph, and even Sentence, which would still be relatively intuitive.Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11979252184749589064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-7004760764713734262010-06-01T06:38:15.780-07:002010-06-01T06:38:15.780-07:00I'd suggest that readers want both the "d...I'd suggest that readers want both the "diffs" and the amended document, as well as the option of viewing the document at any point in time.<br /><br />The latter is quite important: if I take an action on January 12 which is no longer illegal on January 13th, it's rather important for me to know which law applies to me, and what the changes were. <br /><br />And then I'll want to go to the legislative history to see if I have an argument that the law never should have been applied to me.<br /><br />The use case is independent of the means of providing the information, but both a line-based and a clause-based amendment mechanism must honor it.David Collier-Brownhttp://broadcast.oreilly.com/david-collier-brown/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-81588026290913357412010-05-31T07:25:27.258-07:002010-05-31T07:25:27.258-07:00DaveP,
Dave asks, "Have you determined a rea...DaveP,<br /><br />Dave asks, "Have you determined a reasonable Markup scenario: Semantic + page/line somehow overlaid/intermixed?".<br /><br />Yes. It is a compromise solution because this whole area is festooned with <a href="http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/wicked-problems" rel="nofollow">wicked problems</a>.<br /><br />After I get through the current series of posts on problem analysis, I intend to post a series on LEA (Legislative Enterprise Architecture) which will include an explanation of the markup solution we use.<br /><br />SeanSean McGrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729925642255386855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-10052582085560028192010-05-31T04:51:30.083-07:002010-05-31T04:51:30.083-07:00Have you determined a reasonable markup scenario? ...Have you determined a reasonable markup scenario? Semantic + page/line somehow overlaid/intermixed?<br /><br />Love to see an example.<br /><br />Also the process flow across amendments. <br /><br />DavePAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3776799.post-28858908891153628032010-05-30T14:32:38.096-07:002010-05-30T14:32:38.096-07:00Very interesting read. Your characterization of th...Very interesting read. Your characterization of the legislative machine is surely correct and it is probably naive to think that it will change overnight, but I hope this does not stop you from trying to drag it into this century. Word, line and paragraph based amendments to any document be it an act, law or contract *should* be a thing of the past. Any change should result in a complete restatement of the relevant document, which can be diffed against the other version(s). From the scenarios I have looked at(mostly complex contracts with a lifespan of 5+ years and many draft amendments from several sources) this provides the greatest transparency and best quality (smallest number of errors and best language quality - drafters tend to draft differently when using amendments instead of restatements). What proponents of the old system might not readily disclose to you is how many errors it actually results in. Asking that question has several times given me the leverage to move further away from the old model than would otherwise have been possible.maaclhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957062577673090902noreply@blogger.com